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Snowman

New oils not so good?

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Today's Oil Not the Same

You shouldn’t use an oil designed for modern engines in an older style engine

A recent camshaft company Technical Bulletin said it best: “Today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to the ever tightening environmental regulations.”

The EPA, car manufacturers, and the American Petroleum Institute (API) have done a great job reducing emissions and extending the life of emissions control equipment. However, the reduction in emissions has coincided with a reduction in traditional, performance proven anti-wear additives (i.e., zinc dithiophosphates). In the past 12 months, the API has also begun to restrict the zinc levels in diesel oils as well. In the years ahead, the levels of formulated anti-wear will be further reduced. While this is great for the environment, it is bad news for your pushrod engine and flat-tappet cams.

In heavily loaded applications, as stated in the book “Lubrication Fundamentals,” flat tappet cam followers operate on a partial oil film at least part of the time. Lubricants with anti-wear additives are necessary if rapid wear and surface distress are to be avoided. The oil additive Zinc Dithiophosphate is to provide anti-wear activity for the camshaft and lifters. With the increased use of roller follower cams (in production cars), the requirements for anti-wear have been changed to prolong the life of emission control devices.

The high valve spring pressures in pushrod engines require higher levels of formulated anti-wear, especially in flat tappet engines. Again, the book Lubrication Fundamentals sums this up best: “Loading on the rubbing surfaces in the valve train may be high, particularly in high speed engines, where stiff valve springs must be used to ensure that the valves close rapidly and positively. This loading can result in lubrication failure unless special care is taken in the formulation of the lubricant.”

Simply put, the oil used in an engine needs to be formulated specifically for that type of engine. You wouldn't use a stock piston in a race engine, and the same goes for oil. You shouldn’t use an oil designed for modern engines in an older style engine.

Over the last seven racing seasons, Joe Gibbs Racing has developed a family of lubricants that provide the necessary levels of anti-wear chemistry to protect highly loaded racing engines from initial break-in to 24 hour endurance race conditions. The valve train loads in a flat tappet NASCAR Nextel Cup engine exceed 500-psi in order to turn over 9,000 rpm.

These high loads and long duration races (up to 600 miles) require more formulated anti-wear chemistry than even the best API rated synthetic passenger car oils offer. We also have an oil designed specifically for older-style historic car and hot rod engines. Joe Gibbs Driven Hot Rod oil features high levels of zinc for wear protection plus a U.S. Military spec rust and corrosion inhibitors to protect the engine when it is not running as well. No other oil provides this type of protection in the garage and on the road.

What Can You Do? Check your oil bottles for the API donut. If the oil you currently use carries an API-donut, it probably lacks the amount and type of formulated anti-wear chemistry that a historic or racing engine needs. Choose an engineered fluid like Joe Gibbs Oil that’s designed to meet the higher anti-wear needs of your engine.

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I found this out the hard way with my race car. I killed 2 camshafts before I found an article sippilar to this. I had to start running extra ZDDP to help the cam out. Never had a problem after that.

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I've heard some good stuff about that oil, Rob. I was looking into running that myself.

I'm also looking into these guys: http://cen-pe-co.com/ There are a few guys with built motors running their 20w-50 oil and a few more guys running their 15w-40. I contacted them through their website earlier this week about getting some info, but I may have to try calling them.

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I've heard some good stuff about that oil, Rob. I was looking into running that myself.

I'm also looking into these guys: http://cen-pe-co.com/ There are a few guys with built motors running their 20w-50 oil and a few more guys running their 15w-40. I contacted them through their website earlier this week about getting some info, but I may have to try calling them.

Josh, the Schaeffer guy pointed out that one of the benefits of dino over synthetic is the oils ability to "cling". I figure that the "clinging" action of this oil will only help with the piston cooling.

Rob

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Well the biggest reason that I posted this Is because my reps keep hounding me about this. There is alot of bearing failures and lots of camshaft problems. As well as wrist pins and cylinder bores. I just thought that i would pass it on to everyone else. And I am trying to see right now if Joe gibbs is going to make a diesel oil. Ill let you know soon as i here something new.

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What about Amsoil? Our teacher sells/uses it and he seems to like it... Heck he's a member here maybe he will chime in.

Good Oil, since it's Mobil 1 base stock, but it's overpriced... $$$

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Good Oil, since it's Mobil 1 base stock, but it's overpriced... $$$

Are you sure it is (The base stock part, I know about the other..... lol)? That would be too funny.....; but, you never know!

This thread caught my eye as I just this week brought home a 1st gen with bad bearings...... Wonder if this oil had anything to do with this failure....... That would suck for sure! (Just the start of many more to come?)

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All of this is so confusing... it's like trying to figure out what the better truck is... GM, Dodge or Ford.

All the companies are going to say their oil is the best, and people are going to have their preferences. What is really the best, that's the million dollar question!

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This is the million dollar question! I wish I knew the answer....

Did everyone see the TDR oil 'study'? I really liked that article! Again, I think TDR did a great job on putting that info togeather for all of us! Thanks guys!

Here's part one of the 'Study'

And part two of that 'Study'

I like to use Delo 400 15W-40 in mine. I started to use Shell Rotella-T and a truck driver here at work talked me out of it. He also works in the shop for their nationwide company. He says you can tell the difference right away when you open up a motor. The one with Delo 400 will be pretty clean inside. The Rotella-T one will have quite a bit of sludge build up inside all over everything.

My bro-in-law has said the same thing against using sythetics. He claims he has opened up a lot of engines that failed and he could tell right away if they had been fed sythetics because of the thick build up of sludge inside.

Granted that both of my examples are from a few years ago and things have certainly changed since then. We all know that our diesel oil just recently changed again because of the new emission standards 'given' to us just last year. So, while it is hard to go off of past trends, it can sometimes provide us an idea of where a company may still be headed.... even after making 'changes'!

Here's one for you on filters!

With filters I have positively noticed that several companies have started out offering a good quality product. It seems that after establishing themselves as a prefered product in the market place, they have cheapened up their item(s) to a point where they should not be used any longer. Sort of a 'living off our reputation' philosophy of operating a company. I feel Fram did that 20 or more years ago. From the limited research and testing I can find, AC Delco may have done this in the last 5 or so years.

If this is what they have truely done; who's to say that this isn't occurring with our 'favorite' motor oils as well?

Here's the most 'famous' oil filter 'Study' that I know of.

HTH a little, :popcorn:

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Well I look at it this wau penzoil is made by shell and it is the worst oil I have ever seen. I dont know why any one would ever put it in there engine. Well shell also makes Rotella so makes me wonder. That is why I use delo 400 in all my vehicles.

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I personally think rotella is crap too. I put in my powerstroke back before I traded it, drained it at 2000 miles when the engine was dead cold and it came out thinner than water, I put in the delo400 15w40 that I've always sworn by and never had a problem.

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Good points, both of you! Makes me wonder what I was thinking to bring a pail of that home and put it in my baby (Hope it was in the one I traded and not this one!)

I have used Chevron Supreme for many years (from Costco). We got rid of our Grand Marguis not long before the first Cummins and I always used that in it. It had over 200,k on it and still ran as it did when we first got it at under 100,k. An old guy I know told me not to use Supreme in it as it caused his engine to fail. I had to tell him about the miles and how it ran when I got rid of it. I didn't think it was the cause of his bearing failures. I should ask him if he uses Fram oil filters....

Still, this new oil makes me wonder how good it is. Whenever the EPA and what not start 'looking out for us' you have to duck and cover. I really do prefer to not have their help in my daily life! I now have two 1st gen Cummins at my house with some sort of bearing failures. First one has a hole in the water jacket and out the side of the block from a rod it threw. Speedo shows 140,k. It supposedly had meticulous care up to about the last 3 or 4 years of it's life. I can't verify what it had up till the end.

Second one has a rod ( or more! ) about to come off the crank...... Speedo shows about 350,k. I can't tell how bad of a life it had the whole time......

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