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willja

Not sure what to check next

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Need some help guys!! My buddy has a 2000 F350 with cold start issues. I don't know much about fords so I hope I can make sense of what has been checked so far. His truck keeps throwing a 1316 code (IDM circuit failure). The IDM has been replaced twice, the main computer has been replaced once, the undervalve wiring harnesses have both been checked twice and he was told they are okay. It has eight new glow plugs and was told the glow plug system is working properly. He has had it to two different mechanics. It is still at the second which he has had for ten days now with no new news. He is very frustrated at this point. any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Josh

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What kind of oil is in the truck? Remember the powerstrokes need good flowing oil to get the injectors to fire. To viscous and it will be a pain to start. A lot of guys have gone Synthetic to help with cold start issues.

The and while you are checking that, make the sure the HPOP is doing its job too.

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Guest POWERTRIP

The hpop needs to put out 500psi before it will fire up. How long does it take before it gets started? Does it smoke alot after it fires up?

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He is running Rotella 5-30 synthetic. His mechanic says the hpop is putting out 500 to 600 psi at startup. At a hot start or plugged in he says it fires up after about 2-3 secs. very little smoke and seems to run fine. At a cold cold start it takes at least 3-4 key cycles before it starts and that is if it even starts. After the first two cycles it lopes or chugs for a few seconds then dies while blowing white smoke, then after the 3rd and 4th cycles it lopes or chugs for a few seconds then dies while blowing black smoke.

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Did they test the injector circuts from the IDM to each valve cover connector? If those test good, look for glow plug wires rubbing against the push rods and shorting out. If those are good need to check the uvch connector coming loose from the valve cover connector.This is a fairly common occurence and Ford has made a uvc connector retainer kit Part # 2C3Z-14A163-AB available to correct this problem. If a buzz test was run and these connection were not good it would show that you have a injector problem.

Just a few questions to ask,

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Didnt see anythign about changing out the glow plug relay thats the most important part. I have seen the wires loose, thats what happened to me took to 3 dealers, noone noticed the wires loose including me. The best way to tell if it is working is when you get in and turn on the truck the watch the dome light if it dims then goes brighter after the wait to start light goes off then they are cycling thats the free easy way to check, you can get relays real cheap off ebay also.

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Once the GPR is turned on it will stay on for approx 2 mins, long after the WTS light has gone off.

It may be a California truck, with these trucks the glow plug monitor system is part of the On-Board Diagnostics II (OBD II) System.

The glow plug monitor (GPM) system is designed to find failed glow plugs or failed wiring in the glow plug system.

The GPM system uses a low resistance shunt to conduct current to the left and right bank glow plugs.

Three sensing wires measure the voltage drops across the shunt when the glow plugs are operating. A failure in the glow plug system will set a diagnostic trouble code (DTC).

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Once the GPR is turned on it will stay on for approx 2 mins, long after the WTS light has gone off.

It may be a California truck, with these trucks the glow plug monitor system is part of the On-Board Diagnostics II (OBD II) System.

The glow plug monitor (GPM) system is designed to find failed glow plugs or failed wiring in the glow plug system.

The GPM system uses a low resistance shunt to conduct current to the left and right bank glow plugs.

Three sensing wires measure the voltage drops across the shunt when the glow plugs are operating. A failure in the glow plug system will set a diagnostic trouble code (DTC).

I wish they would have had that on all of the trucks.

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Here's what he has replaced so far...

cps

icp

one new injector which failed a buzz test, all others passed

idm

pcm

8 glow plugs

glow plug relay

put in two new interstate batteries

alternator

fuel pump

fuel filter twice

oil and filter change, running rotella 5w40 has 2500 miles on current oil change

both under valve wiring harnesses are new

oil temp sending unit

some sensor on transmission

transfer case

transfer case motor

Everything is working as far as glow plug system. The truck starts right up in 20 degree F weather but anything under 20 and it barely fires and finally starts after 10 or more trys. blows a lot of black smoke. Under 10 degrees and it won't start at all. it keeps throwing codes 1316 and 603. I think the 1316 is a short somewhere. When I plug it in it starts right up.

His mechanic thinks he is finally onto the problem. He said something about finding loose pins on some connectors. So he replaced and tightened the pins tonight and is going to try starting it in the morning and see if that works.

Once the GPR is turned on it will stay on for approx 2 mins, long after the WTS light has gone off.

It may be a California truck, with these trucks the glow plug monitor system is part of the On-Board Diagnostics II (OBD II) System.

The glow plug monitor (GPM) system is designed to find failed glow plugs or failed wiring in the glow plug system.

The GPM system uses a low resistance shunt to conduct current to the left and right bank glow plugs.

Three sensing wires measure the voltage drops across the shunt when the glow plugs are operating. A failure in the glow plug system will set a diagnostic trouble code (DTC).

What code will it throw??

Didnt see anythign about changing out the glow plug relay thats the most important part. I have seen the wires loose, thats what happened to me took to 3 dealers, noone noticed the wires loose including me. The best way to tell if it is working is when you get in and turn on the truck the watch the dome light if it dims then goes brighter after the wait to start light goes off then they are cycling thats the free easy way to check, you can get relays real cheap off ebay also.

Which wires were loose???

__________________

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Most likely with all the work being done the battery was disconnected

and the 603 showed up. Some chips will also throw the code. Should go away after a 100 miles or so, unless chipped.

Possible causes for 603:

Battery or PCM has been disconnected.

battery cables loose or poor connection.

battery discharged.

open in KAPWR circuit.

blown fuse.

Check fuse 15 & 19 & 30 under the dash.

Sounds like the mech is on too it as far as the 1316, keep running the circuts until he finds the the one, pia !

Also have him check the HPOP level prior to start up.

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The wires going to the top of the relay itself. They were there you could see them hooked up so I/we didnt think anything else. I ordered glow plugs and a relay popped the hood to change out the relay and they were loose I tightened up and boom started fine. I wasnt to pissed at the shops because I didnt get charged a dime because they had no clue what was wrong. One dealer said it was the preditor programmer so I got a better one which was a plus. But I couldnt start mine in the summer at 100% it had to be plugged in or I had to use starting fluid.

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My buddy talked to his mechanic today and still nothing. He said something about changing or tightening pins, then he changed the wiring harness, put a new alternator in it. Sounds to me like he doesn't know what to do so he is just throwing parts at it. I feel bad for him he hasn't had a truck for two weeks now and even when he does have it it doesn't run very well. I appreciate all the info hopefully he can get things figured out.

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I just remembered my buddy did say that the dome light does not get brighter when the wait to start light goes off. Maybe it could be the glow plugs?? but he said they were all replaced. or would it be in the wiring??

Thanks

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The dome light will not get brighter when the WTS goes off, the GPR is still sending current to the glow plugs for approx two minutes. Even if the motor is running. Check wires and connections as KMKDP stated.

Print off this article and show it to your friend, he can decide if it's worth showing to the mechanic.

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-10.php

Check the glow plug wires again, the pic below shows GP wire resting on the pushrod.

rub_on_pushrod.JPG

After inspection, grounding out and throwing code. Wire can be re-routed to avoid push rod.

broken_wire.JPG

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Hey guys, I’m the owner of the broke down powerstroke willja (Josh) has been talking about. I just joined the forum and the response is awesome. Thanks for the welcome everyone and thanks for all the replies in this thread. I don’t have an update on the truck cause of the weekend, but I hope to find out more this week. I’ll definitely keep you all posted. Thanks for the pics Jeff. Thing is, Broadway Ford had both valve covers off as did my mechanic, and both of them said everything checked out and there were no problems. Apparently a previous owner replaced the UVC wiring harness and the clips are on to hold it in place. Also we thought maybe there was a short in the wiring from the IDM to the valve covers so the whole engine wiring harness was replaced with one from another truck which was working fine and it made no difference in my truck. Then my mech put my wiring in the other truck and it worked fine. I know that 1316 is usually a wiring problem but everyone that has checked my truck says it all checks out fine. Can a bad pcm and idm cause the problem? The idm keeps going bad for some reason and the pcm was replaced as well. Unless they are both replaced at the same time could a bad pcm blow the idm or visa versa? I’m not really a mechanic myself so I just have to rely on what I’m told and I think the mechanic who has it now is at a loss. We'll see what he finds this week and I will let you all know.

Thanks,

Reid

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Here's the latest on my truck. I don't fully understand what my mech. was talking about, but at least he seems to. He was talking about the cps and the throttle positioning sensor but then ruled them out. Are those on the same circuit? He thinks that circuit is causing electrical issues somewhere. He also talked something about a 5 volt in that circuit or something. I'm so confused. He does think now that the HPOP could be an issue. He said he has heard of the HPOP only pressurizing half of the injectors but he has never actually seen one do it. First time for everything I guess. He said the HPOP is 600 psi at an idle but thinks it could still be bad. A while ago the truck was kicking a 1211 code which I thought was because of the programmer, but he thinks a stock HPOP should be able to handle my evolution 2, maybe the HPOP has kicked the bucket. Also could a bad HPOP cause 1316 code? What are some symptoms of a bad HPOP and what will one cost to replace?

Thanks,

Reid

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what program is your edge on? Maybe put her to stock for a bit, see if that does anything, those GP wires that Jeff posted are pretty wild. To be honest Im at a loss, if I were you Id let this mechanic finish up what hes doin, then bring it to an International Dealer, they saved our 92. Sorry not much help.

Dan

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Thanks for the input Dan. I run my edge on all the settings off and on. I even ran it on stock for a month and the same codes kept comming up so I don't think the programmer is an issue. I actually took my truck the the local Ford dealer here in Idaho Falls and they were more than happy to take 350 bucks from me just to tell me they couldn't find anything wrong. I wasn't too happy about that. I'm at a loss as well, I just know the truck isn't right and my mechanic agrees, but no one can seem to pin point it. He has even had a coulple guys he knows look at it and double check what he has already checked. I noticed you have the edge evo 2 on your excursion, do you like it? not quite the power of a 6 pos chip is it?

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