• Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
Mopar1973Man

Here is what happens if you equalize charge a AGM battery

Recommended Posts

Just like the title says. This is what happens if you equalize charge a AGM battery. Something you can't do with AGM battery. Like lead acid batteries you can do a equalize charge on the battery and it cleans the sulphation off the plates. Attempt it with a seal battery like a Optima it will blow the case. This why most of my lead acid battery will out perform a sealed AGM battery.  This doesn't mean buy the battery and store it in your shop for 10 years on a battery charger.  I mean installed in a vehicle and used every day. 

 

JAvX6fJ.jpg

 

As stated from Trojan Battery.

 

Quote

It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.

 

Here is battery University

 

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/equalizing_charge 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bookmarked so i can go back and browse thru the info.

 

i use optima in truck batts and rv storage batteries and storage for other equipment and the agm has worked flawless. 11 years in my 97 dually. 10 years in my rv and still going :)

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My solar setup here which is all lead acid batteries that power my house I equalize charge once a month. I clear typically 15 years or so. This is only about $4,800 worth of batteries all lead acid. 6 volt batteries arranged in a 24 volt banks which there are two banks. Giving me 820 Amp/hr of power. This is only a 4kw inverter. I will water the batteries once a month with distilled water which starts the stratification then you equalize charge the batteries to re-stir the acid back up as well as clean the sulphation off the plates.  

 

2qu6n0n.jpg

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

24V system. (There is 8 6V batteries.)

4kw Inverter which produces 30 Amp at 120 volts AC.

Box on the lower left is a step up transformer going from 120 to 240 Volts AC.

400 watts of solar in the front yard on a pole. (There is 8 50w panels)

Then in the backyard I've got a hydro-generator (About 200-250w of continues power).

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sweet man. I used to work with those same batteries all the time back when I worked on golf cars. More commonly the 8v ones but sometimes 6. Heavy bastards aren't they? How long will those provide power, couple hours maybe? I guess it sort of depends on how much you're drawing though huh. It's been like twelve years or something, but I think I remember a 6 pack of 6v Batts would pass at 60 amps for one hour. That was for a golf cart though. I can't imagine you'd be drawing 60 amps out of those would ya? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inverter at 100% load draws 166 Amps @ 24VDC. Typically during the day I'm selling about 2-3 Amp AC back to the city. So I lost city power I've been known to run all night long without city power using just the batteries. This means using lights in the house and watching movies or still using the computers (2 of them). The only thing I turn off is the water heater. Everything else in the house works yet. There is only a few things not on the system. Oven, Stove, Drier, and HVAC system. Other than that everything still functions normally just doing it with silent power.

 

Look at it this way it's no different than big in your RV and camping out. This is just a larger scale of the same thing know you lose city power you camping out with the battery bank and inverter. either way, you can be wasteful in RV and wipe out the batteries quickly or in my case, you can be wasteful and run the house batteries dead quickly. So it's a matter of being efficient and using the power wisely.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, makes sense, The less ya pull the longer they go. Sometimes I kind of miss working with large packs of deep cycles. I'd forgotten how cool they really are. 

 

Pretty cool stuff up ya got there man. I like it.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 11:38 AM, MUDDY said:

bookmarked so i can go back and browse thru the info.

 

i use optima in truck batts and rv storage batteries and storage for other equipment and the agm has worked flawless. 11 years in my 97 dually. 10 years in my rv and still going :)

 

 

 

Still got you beat... 24 hours a day, 7 days a week always in use lead acid batteries that lasting upwards of 15 years. No longer storage periods like a vehicle where the vehicle sits for long periods doing nothing. These batteries are powering the house 24/7 always in use because if there city power we use the generated power first. If there is power failure or dirty power the city drops in under 10-20ms and inverter takes over instantly. So it nothing like a vehicle where is spends hours and days not in service.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for a 2wd dually that sits 3 weeks at a time in the winter without any trickle charge i thought it pretty dam good. if i had a wood stove in that garage or lpg htr to warm it up the 11 yo optimas would still be in the truck. guess i shouldve put emback in for spring summer and fall to make the 15 years and keep em warm and trickl charged as well to gain battery life.

 

it was awesome as i NEVER had to clean cables in those 11 yrs. not 1 single time :thumbup:

 

i replaced them red tops with optima yellow tops and i run bigger version, the group 31 in the rv. 6 of them big bastards in there :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't add water to AGM they are sealed... One of the down falls to AGM batteries why I don't suggest them. Since there is more packing around the plates there is much less acid used in the batteries so it don't take very long for that little bit of moisture to vent over time and hard charging. 

 

optima_display_battery_web1-400x280.jpg

 

optima_cell_cutaway_web-400x425.jpg

 

I said I'd get you the information on the big batteries I use...

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/L16REB_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf

 

30wxo94.jpg

 

Just to give you a feel for the amount of use these batteries handle I can pour in just about a full gallon of distilled water to top off all eight batteries. Then after topping off, I do the "equalize charge" for about 2 hours to mix my acid and distilled water and I'm good to go for another month or so. You are looking at 2 banks of 24 volt batteries so equalize charge for these is reaching 30.5 to 31.0 volts for 2 hours. Being able to run these batteries 15 years is awesome compared to any AGM which is typically half as long being you attempt equalize charge to deal with sulphation issues and you'll end up with a battery like above with the case top blown. So this why AGM fail sooner because the plates will sulfate and there is no way to clean that up with a equalize charge or add distilled water. 

 

So like Muddy found out when his Optima battery failed him...

 

Here is more on sulphation of batteries.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it

 

If you look at the Yellow Optima above with the blown case you notice the sulphation already started and the owner attempted to resolve the issue and blew the case.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

strange that while this thread is hot, i loose a 4 to 5 year old yellow top in the wifes half ton.

 

one advantage to the agm batts is i use in the rv, inside to run laptops, cpap, and blender for the margaritas.

 

they advertise do not use lead acid batteries inside of an rv as poisoness gasses ommit during charging. one does not have that worry, so they say, when using/charging the group 31 agm's inside the rv.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2017 at 3:04 PM, MUDDY said:

one does not have that worry, so they say, when using/charging the group 31 agm's inside the rv.

 

That is false. ALL automotive batteries will vent while charging. It's just that AGM batteries have to build up case pressure before venting and typically vents smaller amounts. This how all maintenance free batteries attempt to keep moisture in the cells and prevent drying out. Still in all that drawn in black these are the vents on Optimas yes they do open up and vent every time you charge the battery again just opens when the cell pressure rises. 

 

agm.jpg

 

Remember also this why they are called AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Batteries. The material between the plates is just dampened with acid mix there is no real liquid in the cell. So this why they claim they will not leak because of it like a damp towel it would not drip. But it doesn't take much heat and charge current and the venting process occurs eventually the moisture is lost and the cells dry out. Once that occurs game over this applies to wet cell batteries too but we have the ability to add distilled water before the plates are exposed and equalize charge the batteries again to knock the sulphation off the plates. Just think of under hood conditions starting up on a cool morning put a good discharge on the battery as you crank then alternator kick in with a stiff bulk charge rate to recover the battery. As the under hood temperature rises the pressure will naturally build in the battery cases it to vent without even charging. Then add the 14.5 to 14.8 charge voltage on a cold battery which AGM don't like fast charging because of venting issues. 

 

Now for RV use and slow charging yeah you could get away with it in a RV. Just charge the battery slowly. So like I've got 410 Amp/Hour batters here so suggested for wet cell charge rate is C/20 (Capacity / 20) so (410 / 20 =20.5 Charge rate) so with a AGM most like be small capacity and charge rate will be slower to prevent gassing/venting. Like on my Inverter it set for 1 AC Amp Charge rate... Here is my charge math...

 

120 Volts AC x 1 Amp AC = 120 Watts = 24 Volts DC x 5 Amps DC

 

So even with my massive 410 Amp hour batteries L16RE-B series I will not charge any faster than 5 Amps keep gassing and venting of moisture down. Faster the charge rate the more venting will occur. My solar/hydro will boost above this but with winter coming the hydro will be shut down and solar will be limited for the deep southern sun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So just for fun, I ran downstairs to check my own batteries. 

low cell.JPG

 

The electrolyte is low in all cells. It no longer touching the full ring. So I grabbed the "Steam" distilled water and proceeded to load all the cells up with distilled water. Now since distilled water and the acid mixture has different specific gravity rating you have to mix the distilled water into the acid mixture. This is done with a equalize charge. My inverter has a function for that and allows me to equalize the entire bank. As you can see the charger is heading up to the target of 31.0 Volts or in a 12-volt world it would be 15.5 Volts. This will make the battery gassy and as the bubbles rise to the top they will stir the distilled water into the rest of the cell also at the same time removing plate sulphation. 

 

equalize.JPG

 

It took me all of about 10 minutes to load up the batteries, about 3 quarts of distilled water added, start the equalize process, put all the cell cap on and then put the lid on the batter box. Within about 30 seconds I could already smell the gas starting. My battery box is vented outside the building.

 

batteries.JPG


Just got to remember that I'm doing all this on a 4kw Inverter @ 120 VAC and 820 Amp/hour of batteries in 24-volt configuration. I'm just powering my ENTIRE house on a 24/7 basis... 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now




  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.